In Episode 266, we welcome former pastor Cade back to The Swing Nation, this time with his wife, Jenna. From the Pulpit to the Playroom follows their life after leaving the church, the impact of being outed to family, and the community they have found in the swinging lifestyle. Jenna brings her own perspective on shame, confidence and deciding what she wants to share.
There is plenty of laughter, because putting the four of us together was never going to be a solemn affair. But underneath the jokes is a serious conversation about who gets to define your relationship—and who gets access to your private life.
Why did Cade return with Jenna for Episode 266?
Cade’s first visit stayed with listeners. At the start of this conversation, Lacy admits she had been nervous about discussing religion on the podcast. The response to that earlier episode helped her see why the subject mattered to people navigating their own histories.
This time, Jenna gets to tell her side. The couple describe more than two decades of marriage and a lifestyle journey that began with research, including podcasts and books. They are enjoying themselves, but they are also clear that opening a relationship has brought difficult conversations to the surface.
We talk about faith without pretending every person in the lifestyle has the same beliefs. Cade distinguishes his views on personal faith from his experience of evangelical expectations. His story is his own, and the episode leaves room for listeners whose experiences differ.
What does Jenna say about leaving the church?
There is an important timeline here: Cade says they were not yet in the lifestyle when the church conflict occurred. In their account, private messages between them became part of an investigation, and Cade lost his position. Jenna describes the shock of losing a community that had presented itself as family.
She also describes the shame and anxiety that followed, including fear of encountering people she knew. We hear how that experience continues to affect her, even as she feels more confident now. This is their account of what happened; the conversation does not turn it into a claim about every church or every religious person.
What stands out is Jenna’s description of finding welcome and support among lifestyle friends. She says that community gave her some of the acceptance she had hoped to find in church. Feeling able to speak about her own desires, rather than feeling ashamed of having them, has been meaningful to her.
How has therapy changed their communication?
Cade and Jenna describe individual therapy and couples counseling with professionals familiar with consensual non-monogamy. They say that work has helped them look beyond an apology and ask why a hurtful interaction happened in the first place.
One practical difference they identify is processing time. Cade may be ready to talk immediately, while Jenna needs more time to understand how she feels. An initial response is not always the whole conversation. That detail is easy to recognize even if your relationship looks nothing like theirs.
They do not present swinging as a repair for a struggling marriage. Instead, they describe how it exposed things they needed to work on. Our earlier discussion of lifestyle agreements connects with that part of the episode: honest communication has to include the difficult moments, too.
What happened when family learned about the lifestyle?
Cade describes two very different disclosures. He chose to tell his father, who responded supportively. Later, someone sent screenshots of the couple’s profile to his mother without their permission. The couple do not establish who sent them.
His response was to set a limit on discussing their private life. Jenna experienced the situation differently and describes working through her reaction with her therapist. They also acknowledge that, at the time of recording, they did not believe her family knew.
We connect that discussion to our own experience of public curiosity. Sharing a podcast or parts of your life online does not mean agreeing to share everything. The episode is candid about boundaries without promising that every family will react the same way or that disclosure is easy.
What does creating content mean to Jenna?
Jenna also discusses starting an OnlyFans account while working a full-time job. The conversation covers the effort involved and the importance of understanding what she wants to share. She describes having that choice as meaningful after an experience in which private information was exposed.
We keep coming back to the difference between choosing to be visible and having visibility forced on you. For Jenna, creative control and growing confidence are part of the story. That is her experience, not a suggestion that everyone needs a public platform.
Why does the conversation return to consent?
Toward the end, we talk about the assumptions people can make about adults in consensually non-monogamous relationships. Cade explains that consent is central to his sexual ethics. Choosing a different relationship structure does not mean abandoning boundaries or respect.
For us, that is a useful place to leave this conversation. There are funny tangents, frank stories and some difficult memories, but the thread running through it is people wanting room to make informed choices about their own lives.
Where can you watch or listen to Episode 266?
Watch From the Pulpit to the Playroom on YouTube, listen to the full conversation below, or browse The Swing Nation episode library. This episode contains adult language and discussion of sexual experiences, religious shame and being outed.